39 Michel Kripalani on his wife’s brain tumor & superhero families. "Live as if you're dying."

[00:00:23] MK: The best advice I can give myself as a dad is to always remember how a child spells the word love because to a child, the word love is not spelled L O V E to a child. Love is spelled T I M E. All the child really wants from their parents is time. And the question is how much time can we give it? And how present are we when we are giving our time to our children?

[00:00:53] PH: [00:00:53] Yup. That's very powerful. Okay. I'm going to launch straight in.

[00:01:00] [00:01:00] PH: [00:01:00] Michel, I'm super stoked to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

[00:01:06] MK: [00:01:06] Thank you. I'm very excited to be here.

[00:01:09] PH: [00:01:09] Yeah. The last time we spoke, you were in the RV and you were running thousands of miles with your family.

[00:01:16] And I have to say I was super impressed with our call. Um, I think it's because EO people share straight away. It's like, you people don't mind sharing because they know 5%. And actually, sometimes it treats really good to Shane. So, we had this good conversation and I've been looking forward to our session ever since waiting for you in return.

[00:01:37] I know you're still on your travels, but you're in a house now, so that's good. Um, do you want to give us a quick, uh, give us a quick overview of you Michel.

[00:02:00] MK: [00:02:00] You've got it. Well as a thank you again for or having me on the show. Um, you know, my business career started eight days out of university. I've always been an entrepreneur and I started my first business right out of school. So now I'm in my early fifties and I've started four different businesses.

[00:02:16] They all happen to be software businesses, uh, early interactive multimedia business. And then a video game company for 11 years. Uh, now I'm running a, um, an app development company where we've developed 600 apps in the past 10 years, including the Dr. Seuss line of titles for early reading education for kids.

[00:02:37] And then I also run an augmented reality virtual reality company, and that's my most recent startup. Um, so in the early days I defined myself as an entrepreneur. Um, now I'm finding, as I get older that my entrepreneurial life is a lot less important to me than my family life, which is probably the reason.

[00:02:57] Yeah.

[00:02:58] PH: [00:02:58] And I know that you [00:03:00] made that pivot because you told me, um, in a very up guests, difficult time, but it was a big wake up call. Can you say that? How was

[00:03:10] MK: [00:03:10] that? I can. Um, so I have two daughters. My first daughter was born at the end of 2008. And then my second daughter was born in the middle of 2010.

[00:03:22] And about one year after that in July of 2011, my wife called me when I was working at the office and it was a phone call that changed the trajectory of my life. Um, Karen had been having some numbness and tingling combination of, um, on the left side of her face for a little while, and she'd gone to her regular physician and the physician wanted to do some tests and wanted to do an MRI to rule out.

[00:03:52] Some of the bigger things, more scary things that it could be. And Karen had gone for that MRI and she had the [00:04:00] results of that test. And that's why she was calling me at the office that day. And, um, I remember distinctly, she, she said to me, she said the, um, the doctor, they found a spot. They found, uh, they found a black spot on my brain.

[00:04:16] And they can see it in the MRI, and they want us to see a neurosurgeon first thing tomorrow morning. And that day in July of 2011, um, changed everything for Karen and me, and it changed our relationship with our daughters. It changed my relationship with my business and, um, it's kind of like a turning point.

[00:04:37] There was a, there was a me before that day, and then there was a meal after that day.

[00:04:44] PH: [00:04:44] Yeah. So, you're talking about brain cancer and. And what happened?

[00:04:49] MK: [00:04:49] Yes. So, Karen was diagnosed with a brain tumor that was, um, in the very middle of her brain. It's actually a budding right up next to [00:05:00] her brain STEM.

[00:05:02] And it was, um, not that large, but deep enough that it was inoperable. So, there was no way to go in and even do a biopsy and not being able to do a biopsy meant that we had no idea if the brain tumor was malignant or benign. And, um, we were given the option of doing one round of radiation, brain treatment, brain therapy, brain surgery at UCLA.

[00:05:34] And, um, that was going to be it because the tumor was either going to grow and become problematic or would stop growing. And in theory should not be problematic. And we had no way to know other than just to ride it out. And so, we ended up doing that treatment at UCLA [00:06:00] and. The rest of it was all a mind game.

[00:06:03] In the sense of, we had to tackle things for a positive standpoint, knowing that Karen was going to be fine. And the reality is from a medical standpoint, we did not. And we had to make plans in life, um, with the potential of Karen not being with us with the potential of our one-year-old and two-year-old daughter growing up and not even knowing, even remembering the sound of Karen's voice.

[00:06:31] And so, um, it impacted us heavily, how we look at ourselves as a family. And, um, I should say now, um, it has been nine years since that diagnosis and Karen is doing fantastic. And Karen is with us. Um, And the last nine years, uh, have just, and extraordinary and different because of the choices that we make.

[00:06:58] And I'm sure that some of [00:07:00] you know, more we're going to talk about here, but basically the way that we look at life and the way that we make our choices, um, is different today than it would have been prior to July of 2011.

[00:07:13] PH: [00:07:13] Yeah, ad it was like an awakening for you guys. So, you're woke since then, since that day, right?

[00:07:20] Because you made these decisions, I suppose you said, like, you know, we're going to live life as if it ends tomorrow for Karen in this case,

[00:07:28] MK: [00:07:28] that's it. That's it exactly right. I mean, there's a famous song live as a live as if you're dying. And that's what we started doing. And we started, um, realizing that every moment is precious.

[00:07:39] Every day is precious. Um, we listed, you know, five priorities that we were going to use to guide all of our decisions. Um, everything from focusing on family first to, uh, making extraordinary choices. Can you say them?

[00:07:59] PH: [00:07:59] I know you [00:08:00] have, I know you have them explicit, please share them.

[00:08:03] MK: [00:08:03] So sort of the first, the five priorities that we focus on our family and others first, um, this, this brain tumor gave us a reason to sort of get out of ourselves.

[00:08:13] I mean, Karen needed to focus on herself. She needed to focus on our, on our health, but for me and for everyone else, like this was an opportunity to stop being. So, uh, maybe narcissistic is too much of a strong word, but it's so easy to get caught up in our own ego and focused on our stuff and my story and my business and my, this and my blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:08:34] And, and this was a wakeup call for me to focus on Karen and the family. Um, Second, um, we decided to choose extraordinary when you, when you're living life with the, uh, potential that you may not wake up tomorrow, you decide to do those extraordinary things and not put things off. And, you know, I can go into more of that later if you want.

[00:08:55] But at every turn we chose extraordinary. I mean, that's even how we found ourselves in the RV, [00:09:00] you know, for the last. 8,000 miles, seven and a half weeks. Like we chose extraordinary, you know, during this time of COVID we could have said, well, we're just going to be home and not talk to anyone and not see anyone, or we can create a quarantine vehicle and take it on the road.

[00:09:16] And that sounded more extraordinary. So, we chose that. Um, the third priority is leaving breadcrumbs. We can talk about that. If you want. For me, that's all about journaling and leaving behind for the girls. The fourth is heavy, um, health, healthy living, really making healthy choices in terms of food and exercise and the rest of it.

[00:09:36] And the fifth is probably the most important it's gratitude. Um, really trying to tackle each day with gratitude. And maybe as we come full circle on these, I'll tell you this story that really brought that home for me, the gratitude story that impacted our family was tremendous.

[00:09:53] PH: [00:09:53] Okay. I have so many questions.

[00:09:55] Let's start right there. These tablets tell the credited

[00:09:58] MK: [00:09:58] story. [00:10:00] So about, uh, four or five years in after this, after we realized that Karen was going to, um, live and be healthy, and we were just going to live these extraordinary lives and we saw the opportunities that were coming to us because of the choices that we were making.

[00:10:18] Um, she was coming out of a deep meditation one day. And she said, um, that she had a vision and she realized that for four or five years prior, whenever she thought of the inside of her head, she always saw this black mass that was. This tumor that was there, that was trying to destroy her, trying to kill her.

[00:10:41] And she was fighting it. And as she came out of this particular meditation, she realized that it wasn't a black mass at all. For the first time she saw it as a gold nugget and the gold nugget was there as a gift to her. And that gift was our ability to. [00:11:00] Wake up and see life different. It's crazy. As I'm telling the story, I literally have chills and goosebumps going down.

[00:11:06] I know we're on an audio recording right now. Um, But, you know, how, and we go from something that is perceived as so bad and turn it around to something that's actually good and amazing and incredible for us and to see the gifts in it. See the beauty in. Um, Hmm. So yeah, number five is gratitude. We try to live in gratitude every day.

[00:11:32] PH: [00:11:32] That's so powerful and it's very beautiful, actually, that, that insight that she had. Yeah. And you, okay, let's go back then. Number four.

[00:11:43] MK: [00:11:43] Yeah.

[00:11:45] PH: [00:11:45] What was number four, healthy legacy living healthy. Okay. That's easy.

[00:11:50] MK: [00:11:50] Well, it's easy, you know, from, from her perspective, right. She had to be healthy. She had to do everything that she could do.

[00:11:57] Um, she immediately changed her [00:12:00] diet or exercise or exercise routine and everything, but here's the part that really woke me up. Um, I had to also. You see, prior to that, I was just kind of, you know, doing okay, doing our right exercising a little bit, eating, whatever. And I always thought that if I died, Karen would be there to take care of the girls.

[00:12:18] And for the first time I realized. Maybe she won't, but maybe I have a responsibility to actually take care of myself. Um, and so I started running and, um, I ended up, you know, since that time I've run 25, half marathons and a full marathon. And, um, we've together as a family started to eat healthier. And, um, I don't know, I was never a big workout guy.

[00:12:42] I wouldn't even say I'm a big workout guy now, but I do it because I know I need to, Hmm.

[00:12:47] PH: [00:12:47] I have this goal. Um, Uh, that I'm going to be fit enough in 25 years for my children to wanting to take me on a surf trip or on the mountain, whatever they do. And then, but the [00:13:00] trick is that it's a revolving goal, so it stays 25 years.

[00:13:04] MK: [00:13:04] Nice, nice. I love it. I love it. You're going to be a hundred. You're like at 125. I'm going

[00:13:09] PH: [00:13:09] to go surfing. I love it.

[00:13:12] MK: [00:13:12] I got to do my stretches.

[00:13:15] PH: [00:13:15] That's it. But I mean, it's, it's nice because like, it gives me. So, what I do is I create sub goals, right? So last year I ran a half marathon for the first time. And I have activities that I do every week where I train three, three times a week.

[00:13:31] So I have these PSAP activities in order to achieve this goal, but it's a long-term goal and it's the same kind of reason, right. I'm going to spend time with the family and enjoy that time and not just be old and in pain. When, when they're older.

[00:13:44] MK: [00:13:44] That's it, that's it.

[00:13:46] PH: [00:13:46] And number three,

[00:13:47] MK: [00:13:47] number three is leave breadcrumbs.

[00:13:50] And, um, you know, this is something that I learned from a guest that you had on your very first episode, Warren rust and Warren rust, and got me journaling every day. [00:14:00] And I journal in these leathers bound. Books. And, um, I realized that the journals that I'm leaving are not for me. It's not a, it's not something that I'm doing for me.

[00:14:12] It's for my daughters. One of these days, they, those journals will be for them and they will be under, they will be able to understand who I was, um, what I was doing, what I was thinking when certain things were happening. And it's for, it's an opportunity for them to understand their dad better. Um, you know, what was it like to be in that RV and you know, or why did I shut that business at that time?

[00:14:37] Why did I make that decision? Um, how did I feel about their mother, you know, at this time? And, um, I put those things in there. I realize it's for them. Um, I took it one step further. Though, because I'm an app developer. I explained that at the beginning, I actually developed an app just for the girls. Um, it's an app that I called mindset for success and I recorded a couple of hundred [00:15:00] messages of myself, um, coaching, coaching, the girls, and, um, what they are able to do.

[00:15:09] They don't appreciate it. Now. They're too young for it. But someday when I am no longer here, they will be able to open up their mobile device, launch this app and hear their dad coaching them three coaching thoughts every single day, randomized, perfectly chosen by the universe, just for them each and every day.

[00:15:30] So my daughters are going to get that the grandkids are going to get that. And, um, you know, it, uh, it stems out of losing my dad. I lost my dad when I was 30. And one of the most painful things in my life today is I wish that I could talk to my dad and hear my dad. And I realized that we don't have much of his words either written or spoken or anything.

[00:15:52] And I didn't want my girls to go through that experience. So, I decided to build this app just for them. And, uh, Yeah,

[00:15:59] PH: [00:15:59] that's [00:16:00] beautiful. Then how long is the session? It's each session coaching session.

[00:16:04] MK: [00:16:04] It's about five minutes. So, it's just five minutes every morning. They can, they can

[00:16:08] PH: [00:16:08] talk up, what are you talking?

[00:16:10] MK: [00:16:10] I talk about what I do leave it takes to have a successful life. So, I talk about focus and I talk about discipline and I talk about intention and I talk about all these things that I've been hearing about from all these wonderful teachers and coaches and mentors for all of these years. And it's just my thoughts on how to live a good, wholesome, healthy.

[00:16:31] Life. And I hope that someday this becomes, um, important and powerful for them and that hopefully I can help them out of sometimes of darkness if I'm not able to be there for them. Um, in some ways I always will be able to be there for them. Yeah, that is beautiful.

[00:18:16] MK: [00:18:16] We do a couple of years ago, we set up, um, email accounts for each of the girls. And what we do is we regularly, when we think of it, we will send them messages, um, in the moment. And, um, Messages of encouragement or whatever it happens to be. So, for example, if we see them playing soccer, now we can say, Hey, I'm watching you playing soccer.

[00:18:37] I think it's amazing. You've worked so hard, you know, congratulations on everything that you've done and what it. Does is, you know, while the child is seven or eight, you can say that, but it will sort of go in one ear and out the other ear. But at some point, in the future, either when they graduate from high school or wedding or something like that, they will get access to those [00:19:00] inboxes and they will get the collection of everything that we've.

[00:19:03] Decided to write for them. And, um, we hope that that will be a magical time for them. I mean, the other possibility, which hopefully we don't want it to be the case is that if Karen and I ever were to pass away and to not be available, then at least that's additional breadcrumbs that we've left. You know, the thing is, it's not about the.

[00:19:24] Process that we are using. I mean, sometimes I use post-it notes. Sometimes I write cards. Sometimes I do whatever. I have a dear friend that writes a post-it notes to everyone in his family every morning, as part of his morning routine, that the technique is not what matters. The question is, are we being thoughtful enough to think I want to leave something for this individual?

[00:19:47] I want to contribute something to them. And what really hits home for me on this is oftentimes parents will say, I will do anything for my child. I will just, I mean, I will do anything. If I had to [00:20:00] give my life for my child, I would give my life for my child and I say, okay, that's awesome. Um, will you give five minutes a day for your child?

[00:20:10] Right. It takes intention, you know, day. Right. I mean, it's like, okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm not asking you to give your life. I'm just asking you to five minutes a day and do we take the time to do that? And, you know, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to make my dad look bad or anything, but boy, I mean, I wish that he had taken five minutes, you know, once a month and left something.

[00:20:29] It'd be nice to have that connection. And so, um, not to say anything ill against my dad, I just want to make a different choice with my daughters and we really try to build a lot.

[00:20:42] PH: [00:20:42] Hmm. Yeah. And I mean, we talked about it, I think earlier on before this, uh, the session it's so easy to get caught up in business and, and it, it just takes so much of your time.

[00:20:59] Mac [00:21:00] to build a business and to start with nothing into add. At the same, we started in a garage and we started with zero euros. We had to find one client pursuit who would like to give us money and, and it's, it just takes. All the time. And then when you have children, you have to make, you have to make conscious decisions on how you spend the time, because you could just continue this, especially when children come, because now everything perhaps is more expensive and this nurse, and its fair heart, not to fall into that trap.

[00:21:30] That

[00:21:31] MK: [00:21:31] it's, it's, it's so easy to fall into that trap. And I'll tell you as someone that has started and run a business as a bachelor, trying to run businesses with a family. And to use those techniques that I used as a bachelor, which was to work 360 days a year. And to put in, you know, 12 hours a day or 16 hours a day or whatever, um, it is in [00:22:00] congruent when a family is there.

[00:22:02] And so entrepreneurs have a choice to make, which is, you know, um, I have this opportunity with this business. Am I going to put all my time and attention into the business? Um, At the detriment of the family, or am I going to put the family first and say, I will find a way to let the business thrive without me having to put that effort in it's harder.

[00:22:25] It's a lot more work. We have to get more creative with it. Um, I struggle with it and I'm sure even my employees sometimes wish that I was available and around more, um, But I'm just not willing to do it. I'm putting the family first and the business has to come second and there's got to be other ways for it to be successful.

[00:22:45] PH: [00:22:45] But you go to the office or not. Do you work from home?

[00:22:48] MK: [00:22:48] I used to. So pre COVID, I had an office, and I went to the office regularly and then COVID hit, we went 90 days with no one going into the [00:23:00] office and I realized that we could be just as effective being virtual as we were in the office. So, we talked to the landlord, we got an early termination.

[00:23:09] We moved out of the office. Um, and then I took it to the extreme and we bought an RV and we got on the road and we've been on the road for the past two months.

[00:23:18] PH: [00:23:18] Yeah, and we did the same in our company. We we've always been a virtual company, servicing clients from Cape town in and the clients I in Germany and Switzerland, right.

[00:23:28] Doing digital work. Um, so we, we know that, and I've been doing that for 17 years. Working remotely. And I've always had to tell people, look, you can actually work remotely, you know, totally don't need to sit as a, but I mean, that, that was difficult for many people until COVID hit. Yep. And then, uh, we literally became a truly virtual company with only virtual customers.

[00:23:49] We don't have a single cell African client and a hundred percent a virtual team. Um, overnight, because for us it was literally one Slack message. Hey guys, you don't [00:24:00] have to come on Monday kind of we spoke about it, but yeah, literally that's what it was. And I think this would have, I mean, we're super small with 17 people, but this would have massive changes in the word we're holding.

[00:24:14] Like big companies who never come back to offices, they would not need the space. The space will be used differently. People will move further out of the city, outside of the city because you don't have to commute. You actually have more time for family because you don't commute an hour and a half, twice a day.

[00:24:29] It's massive.

[00:24:31] MK: [00:24:31] A hundred percent. And I agree with you. We have more time for family. The question is, will people choose to put more time in the family?

[00:24:37] PH: [00:24:37] You have to choose it, right? You have to choose. And number two. So, number three,

[00:24:43] MK: [00:24:43] Choose extraordinary. Choose extraordinary. So, we, um, anytime we come to a decision in the road for them family, we ask ourselves which choice would be the more extraordinary which one is going to give us the more life experience, which one is going to [00:25:00] bring us the most amount of happiness.

[00:25:02] And we try to move to that. Um, I think oftentimes people make decisions out of a position of, um, safety or fear. Or which one's going to be financially more beneficial and we are doing our best. We don't always do it, but we are doing our best to always try to choose the route. That is the more extraordinary, um, you know, that was this idea behind the RV, for example, this year, um, Yeah.

[00:25:28] In January, we had no idea that we would be buying an RV and traveling across the U S and an RV, but when COVID hit and we were faced with some decisions, we realized it was an opportunity. And, uh, you know, it was sort of like, wouldn't it be cool if. And why couldn't we do this? And, you know, anytime we say would, wouldn't it be cool if we try to ask ourselves, well, what would that take to actually make it happen?

[00:25:52] So we'll do that. Um, we, we travel with the girls a ton pre-COVID. We were bringing them internationally all the [00:26:00] time. We had a lot of opportunities to travel internationally and our girls would travel with us. It was a lot more extraordinary to travel with the family than for me to go by myself and to be gone for a week or two.

[00:26:12] Um, I wouldn't say it was easier, you know, oftentimes it was harder, but that's okay. That's okay. It created a better family experience

[00:26:21] PH: [00:26:21] doing hot things as much better. I don't know if you listened to, um, um, the ditch you listened to the podcast with the Navy suit I had on rock Denver.

[00:26:33] MK: [00:26:33] Uh, I did not hear that one yet.

[00:26:35] No.

[00:26:37] PH: [00:26:37] Yeah. Yeah, he's amazing. I mean, I mean, they are all amazing, but they're also different, but rock is like true man, you know, and he's like a hard heart soldier. Um, and he says, you know, he's a huge proponent of, of doing, uh, doing hot things. And for that, you don't have to be a hot soldier. You can also decide that you're going to travel with the kids.

[00:26:59] That's right. You're [00:27:00] going to take them. That's right. Doing hot things makes a lot of sense, you know?

[00:27:04] MK: [00:27:04] Yep. And generally good things happen from it and try and generally you get a better life experience for doing the work.

[00:27:13] PH: [00:27:13] Yeah. What he also says is if you don't do hard things, if you shy away from hard things, um, and, and this means really difficult, you know, not taking the easy route is really what he's saying.

[00:27:25] You will not be inoculated for when the situation becomes actually difficult. Yeah. So, it makes a lot of sense to choose the more difficult path. Yeah. Ways

[00:27:37] MK: [00:27:37] build the muscle

[00:27:40] PH: [00:27:40] and number one.

[00:27:42] MK: [00:27:42] Family first family first, my friend, that's it. I mean, it's just the decisions that we make are about putting family first and, um, you know, uh, it's interesting.

[00:27:55] And you know, there's a lot of personal growth that can come from trying [00:28:00] to shed or shred the ego. And, you know, we kind of have to get ourselves out of our way. Um, I believe that we can become. So much more impactful and powerful and magnificent in life when we are focused on others, rather than just being focused on ourselves.

[00:28:18] And the society that we're in today is very much focused on yourself, focus on yourself, get what you can. And, um, I just don't come from that school of thought, you know, a happy wife equals a happy life. And anything that I can do for my kids is really what I want to do first and foremost.

[00:28:35] PH: [00:28:35] And have you managed to, as parents to get your children to adopt these stances as well?

[00:28:41] Do they embrace this by now?

[00:28:44] MK: [00:28:44] I think that they see it just in the way that we are making our choices. I mean, they are a part of all of it. They are a part of, um, team Krip. We talk about it. We are a superhero family. We, we have a family pose. We, we, we stand [00:29:00] looking like Superman and to stand up and we, you know, we probably had 500 to a thousand different photos of us standing together as a superhero family, all around the world.

[00:29:14] I mean, just in the last. Two months. We've probably added another, I don’t know, 50 photos as we've crossed 25 States. Um, and like we are a team. We, we, we built a team, and this is how we live. This is the way that we make choices. We, we live in gratitude and we eat. And, um, you know, in terms of leaving breadcrumbs, you know, the day that COVID hit and the schools were closed, the girls had to go get a blank journal.

[00:29:42] The first assignment is go get a blank journal. And they were like that. Why am I getting a blank journal? We'll go get it and bring it down. They came down and they sat down. They each had a blank journal in front of them. I said, as long as this pandemic is here, you have to fill at least one page of this journal every day before you get to do anything fun every day.

[00:29:58] So now going all the way [00:30:00] back to March, I mean, we're recording this now. What is it? It's August. I'm going all the way back to March. Every single day, the girls have written in their journal, what was happening to them? What they were feeling, what they were experiencing. And then, like, we didn't even know we were going to go on an RV trip.

[00:30:16] Then it was like, now we're leaving in the RV trip. And now we're at white sands, New Mexico. And here we are where Thomas Jefferson lived and, you know, like they, it just rolled into that. So, we're trying to do what we can do to build these habits in them early. I don't know if they'll stick, but I hope they will.

[00:30:32] You know, gratitude, healthy living. These are just mindsets.

[00:30:35] PH: [00:30:35] Yeah. I try to do that. I try to, I do it. I drew journal. Um, I tried to do at 10, 10, 10. I really struggled doing it in the morning before everybody wakes up because in my, my day is not my day anymore. And it's like, I have to get up at. I don’t know, five o'clock or four cities to be before everybody.

[00:30:56] And so now I've, I've scheduled it after lunch. Yeah, [00:31:00] because then I actually, I go back to my office. My office is the house next door. I don't, I haven't been to the office for three years talking about it. I haven't been to the office since the triplet’s game. I've been once to, to drink beer. Because we want to be client.

[00:31:11] And once, because I signed with a client who was there in us. Sure. I'll meet you at the office. Yeah. Meanwhile, I haven't been there three, which is fine. I I'm very thankful to my business partner that he actually went and now everybody understands that you don't have to go anymore. So, he also doesn't go anymore because who wants to be at the office goes and who doesn't now. Right. Um, so I think there's two or three people. Right. But anyways, I do that journaling at lunchtime now, but it's, that's all sort of quit because then coil comes up out of is, I'm really struggling to find a slot in a day where I can build that routine.

[00:31:52] And then the days gone and, Oh, oops. I did journal. And so how do you fix that? How do you fix that?

[00:31:59] MK: [00:31:59] I only worked for [00:32:00] me first thing in the morning. I mean, that's that, that's the time, you know, setting the alarm for five or five 30. I did five for the longest time. I just found I was walking around tired.

[00:32:10] Um, I never really got to it. Five 30, six, six is the absolute latest I can get up and have a truly effective day. Um, too much gets going too fast. Um, if I'm not up by six and onto my reading and I don't do my writing and the most important thing that I need to do is I really need to plan my day and I need to plan those two or three or five things that I really need to knock out and block them out in the, in the schedule.

[00:32:38] Um, you know, uh, again, I refer to Warren Rustand, um, because he was the first guest on your podcast, and he's been a big mentor and coach of mine. And when he was coaching me, the one thing that I took away from it is there was only one thing Warren wanted to see from me. Every day. And that was my calendar.

[00:32:56] He wanted to know how I was blocking out my [00:33:00] calendar and what I was planning on doing. And he used to say, you can tell someone's effectiveness, um, by looking at their calendar. But more importantly, you can tell someone's priority by looking at where they spend their time. So, you know, where you choose to spend.

[00:33:15] That's what you're going to get done.

[00:33:18] PH: [00:33:18] This is very true. Yeah. And what time do you sleep when you get up at five or six?

[00:33:24] MK: [00:33:24] I'm generally around, uh, 10, 10 30. I'm not, I'm not a late owl at a night out. I used to be, um, in my old days, but now my whole days now with the family and the rest of it, um, I find, I need, I'm a lot happier if I get to bed.

[00:33:37] If I get to sleep by 10.

[00:33:39] PH: [00:33:39] Mm. And, and different topic. Can you talk a bit about your dad? I know that you mentioned very briefly earlier that you lost him when you were 30. Um, I know there's a story around this because we talked about it. Um, can you talk a bit on that?

[00:33:56] MK: [00:33:56] I can, um, you know, my dad was a, an [00:34:00] interesting man and he was from India and, um, my mother was from Canada, so I grew up with two very different cultures and, uh, my dad.

[00:34:08] My dad wanted us to exercise and do the right things. But the way that he would do it is he would say, why don't you go outside or play tennis? Why don't you go outside and do this? He never said let's go out and play tennis. Um, so he was very much, um, do, as I say, not as I, um, and he ended up dying relatively early.

[00:34:29] He was 68 and, um, he was, it was just too early to have lost him. Um, You know, and there was, unfortunately the circumstances of his death, um, were a big impact to me because this was a time when I was running a business that was growing and booming and we had 40, some odd employees and my dad needed to go in for, um, open-heart surgery and, um, The, the short version of the story is that the surgery got [00:35:00] moved up from the afternoon to the morning and he called me and he said, they've changed the time of the surgery.

[00:35:06] And I said, but dad, I've got this, uh, this, uh, this meeting. He goes, I know, I know, I know you've got this meeting. I'm going to go in for the surgery. It's going to be fine. The doctors say it's routine. It's going to be fine. Just come up and see me when I come out and I ended up taking the meeting. And not seeing my dad.

[00:35:22] And unfortunately that was the last time I spoke with my dad because the surgery did not go well. And he went into a coma and we ended up having to take him off of life support for three days. And it is the kind of decision that I am embarrassed to share. I don't know. I now. As someone who is in his early fifties, looking back on his life, looking at that 30-year-old, I don't recognize that person.

[00:35:51] I don't know how I could have possibly made the decision that I made and, um, introduced that level of loss and hurt [00:36:00] into my life. And, um, I every day, I just remind myself like, okay, I'm not that person. I'm not going to make those choices again. I won't make that mistake again. And I certainly won't make those wrong choices as it relates to my family.

[00:36:14] I will be their family first. It just matters to me.

[00:36:18] PH: [00:36:18] Yeah. So, I hope, I truly hope that decision can be a golden nugget for you because

[00:36:24] MK: [00:36:24] yeah.

[00:36:26] PH: [00:36:26] It's a reminder to make the right priorities.

[00:36:29] MK: [00:36:29] Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. And we always have choices, and you know, what's funny now enough time has passed that I can barely remember what the meeting was about.

[00:36:44] I think it was kind of like a pitch Fest thing where we were showing the business and maybe two investors in like an expo type environment. But I honestly can't remember. But I know that if I had gone to see my dad and to have that last [00:37:00] conversation with him, I can guarantee you, I would have remembered that conversation.

[00:37:07] PH: [00:37:07] Yeah. Big lesson.

[00:37:08] MK: [00:37:08] Yeah. Yeah. Huge lesson.

[00:37:10] PH: [00:37:10] Very powerful. Hey, what do you want to share where I haven't gone yet? Just, just share with us.

[00:37:21] MK: [00:37:21] I think there's one or two, um, quotes that I keep handy that I often look at that, you know, might be worthwhile for your folks. You know, one of them is Anthony Robbins, you know, whatever people think of Anthony Robbins. He's had a couple of really powerful things to say. And one of them is that to make profound changes in your life, you need either inspiration or desperation.

[00:37:43] And, um, I had a lot of desperation when Karen was going through her tumor. Situation. And I'm hoping now that in the process of having this conversation with you, um, it might impact some people to inspire them, to, [00:38:00] to make some of the choices that could be beneficial for them and really for their family.

[00:38:05] Um, and then the second thing is something that, um, Jim Roan used to say, which is, um, time is more valuable than money. You can make more money. But you can't get more time. And, um, it's amazing to me, how I used to be very, um, Careless with time. I think about how I used to spend time and over as I've gotten older, like I've just cut things out of my life.

[00:38:36] I, um, I remember cutting an NFL out of my life. You know, I did, I did the calculation on it, the odds of the team that I was supporting of winning the super bowl. We're, you know, roughly 3%, uh, maybe a hair more, um, and the odds of the year, just ending in absolute disaster and heartbreak and pain, we're going to be in the high nineties.

[00:38:58] Why am I doing this to [00:39:00] myself?

[00:39:01] PH: [00:39:01] You know, why do you could've changed teams?

[00:39:03] MK: [00:39:03] Right? I could have changed teams, but even then, the percentage doesn't change, right? If you pick one team and I'm like, this thing is a scam. And so, I. Can I just cut it out and then I realized how much time am I even just wasting watching TV?

[00:39:17] Like, you know, I can't even remember some of the shows I would watch or the movies I would see or whatever. I don't know. I think I've just gotten into more introspective as I've gotten older and I wish I could have some of that time back. And, um, yeah. I, you know, I would much rather just sit down with my, with my daughter and play a game of chess or a teacher, something about math, or, you know, we're, we're at the beach right now.

[00:39:39] And the other day I spent all this time with her in a magnet and we're pulling magnetite and iron oxide out of the sand, and then we're Googling why it's happening and what's happening and whatever. And I don't know, I just, I know that that time invested in the family is going to pay off so much more than if I had, you know, Binge watch something on Netflix that, you know, wouldn't really impact my life in the [00:40:00] beneficial.

[00:40:01] PH: [00:40:01] That's true. Yeah. I track, I track everything. I drew in a little time-tracking app and then I can look at where I wasted my time or where I spent. And there is literally, there's actually a, um, one bucket is time wasted and then it says Netflix social media. So, I track that tool just to remind myself how much time it actually, well, I can make it visible that way, how much time I actually spend on it and sort, I think. Two or three weeks ago, in case anybody's wondering, I gave my assistant all my social media passwords. I actually, for four or five weeks ago, we went to Eden space surfing with the family for a week. And I was like, I'm not going to even spend a minute on these things, but because they're so addictive, Instagram is like on your phone and you just mindless scrolling and, um, it costs half an hour is totally you do that five times a week or seven times a week.

[00:40:55] That's like half a day gone for nothing. And Carmen changed all my passwords and she never gave them back to me where I have to ask her for it. But yeah, I've gained that time. It's an instant it's instant time. Gain.

[00:41:09] MK: [00:41:09] That's amazing. And, and, and, and the real words are you are so much richer for it, right?

[00:41:15] You now have all this amazing time to do things with, and you can record an extra podcast, or you can read an extra book. That's going to make a difference to you. Or you can go spend time with your amazing, incredible five kids, you

[00:41:26] PH: [00:41:26] know? Yup. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. What else is there you could share or

[00:41:33] MK: [00:41:33] you, um, you know, I, a lot of this wraps up in, in, um, in a word that I think I've spent a lot of time thinking about for the last couple of years, the word is legacy.

[00:41:43] And you know, the thing is that we all are going to leave something behind. When we're gone. And the question is, are we being thoughtful and proactive about what we are choosing to leave behind with regards to our family and our [00:42:00] community and the people around us that we love, or are we going to live our life haphazard and just like.

[00:42:07] We were talking about earlier in the podcast where we were saying, you can wake up early and you can plan out your day and have it be an effective day, or you can be haphazard and whatever happens. Um, I believe that the same applies to life in general. We either can make an active plan for what we want to leave behind.

[00:42:27] Um, or we can just have it be haphazard. And, and I would argue that having some thought. In terms of what we want to leave behind, um, is I believe the, the, the high road, the morally right thing to do for those around us. And then to further on that, I believe that once we take a step of actually focusing on our legacy and making active choices in terms of how we want to impact our family, Um, [00:43:00] the process is kind of like, um, a snowball because when we start, it's like a tiny little, small snowball and we haven't left much, maybe a page or two, a note or two, or recording a video.

[00:43:11] But the more that we do, the more that we build on it. And by the end of our life, we could have this mammoth huge, gigantic snowball. That's just rolled up and built and built and built. Um, I think about people that I look up to and I think, wow, what an amazing life they had and what an amazing legacy they left behind them.

[00:43:33] And I asked myself, how many of them did it in the last six months or a year of their life? Or how many of them started on that path decades prior? And we're just laying layer on layer, on layer, on layer and by the end of their life, you know, there's so much there that, you know, the doctor gives you a, you know, uh, an announcement that you only have six months to live.

[00:43:56] And you're like, yeah. Okay. That's all right. I've already lived it. I've already done it. I've already [00:44:00] left all the breadcrumbs. I need to leave. You know, rather than being in a mad scramble to try to pull everything together, then you. I'm jumping ahead. I'm talking a little bit, you know, morbid here, but it's not, it's not trying to be morbid.

[00:44:13] Right? I mean, the reality is we're all going to be gone someday. And so

[00:44:17] PH: [00:44:17] that's true. And I don't, I don't think it's more, but I think as dads, we have the amazing opportunity to start to help our children start this journey earlier. When you say why didn't have hadn't haven’t, I done this decades ago? Well, because no one told you and you had to find out that.

[00:44:34] That this is valuable. And, you know, as, as dads, we can be that person who, who shows our children when used. Tell your daughters to buy a journey. That makes a lot of sense to me because okay. Maybe they don't like it at the time, but maybe five years later, they think back to it and they think, Hey, how would I find this?

[00:44:54] And they go, Oh, wow. This was actually quite cool. Let me restart this. And so maybe you've given them 10, 15 years [00:45:00] of 20. I don't know. Maybe they would've never started.

[00:45:03] MK: [00:45:03] Well, that's it. And you know what our job as parents is to push our kids and to, and to get them to do things that they don't necessarily like, right.

[00:45:10] You got to eat your carrots, you got to eat your vegetables. I mean, writing in a journal to them right now is a little bit like that, but that's okay because you're going to be healthier for it. You're going to, you're going to think. Me later. Um, we, I was having a conversation with a couple of friends the other day, and we were talking about COVID and we were talking about the girls not being in school, and everyone's concerned about falling behind and the rest of it.

[00:45:31] And I almost had to stop the conversation and I was looking at him and I said, you know what, guys? I. Education wise, like, I don't care if my girls miss this entire year of school, there's really only one thing. I want my girls to get out of life at this stage from school. And if the school can't give it to them, I'm going to give it to them.

[00:45:50] I just want them to be. Curious. I want them to have a love of learning and of explore and exploration, [00:46:00] you know, because when they're older, the world is at their fingertips. They can learn anything. They need to learn. They can learn algebra when they need to learn it, they can learn all kinds of, you know, history.

[00:46:09] Anytime it's all available. I believe that we spend a little bit too, too much time work worrying about the details of what they're learning and, and, and we need to be focused on the habits and the behaviors of wanting to love the process of learning. And that's what we're spending a lot of time on in the RV.

[00:46:30] We, we ask a lot of open-ended questions, you know, like we visited where Thomas Jefferson lived and it's like, what do you think it was like to leave here at that time when there were slaves here? And what would you have felt in that moment? You know, and we talked a lot about Washington and we, we, we, we just, we, we happened to be doing a lot of American history because we were traveling up the U S East coast, this particular trip, but this idea of how I can infuse curiosity and a love of learning [00:47:00] into my daughters is just like, that is what is in my mind right now to the point of obsession. I'm just trying to get them obsessed. I almost want to add to their journal project and say every day you need to come up with a crazy open-ended question that you don't know the answer to.

[00:47:16] And by the end of the day, you need to tell me what the answer is like. Let's go learn what life is about. You know, it's such a fun age. They can do it

[00:47:24] PH: [00:47:24] now. Yeah, I totally agree. I spoke to a, my kids are much younger, but this is where it gets so much value. I do this to leapfrog my own experience just as well, you know, my own development as a father.

[00:47:37] And, uh, I spoke to a dad, uh, David Hirsch last week, he runs a podcast called. That too dad. And he's speaks to children, two fathers with children who have special needs kids with autism and all kinds of other special needs. Very interesting, man, he's been doing this [00:48:00] for. Not the podcast, but he's been, he's written a book on it and he's, he's very, he's started 21st century dads, 21st century fathers.

[00:48:09] And so he's been doing this for decades and the one advice he gave me, and he spoke to hundreds of debts. And the one advice he gave me was be involved in your children's education and spark their interest spark. Their creativity, helped them expand their mind, show them what you've just shared is 100% that.

[00:48:29] Asking open-ended questions going, traveling with them, showing them the world, showing them different perspectives, being open to different opinions. That is, that is what you can watch. You can. Give men, what is so valuable?

[00:48:43] MK: [00:48:43] I mean, this is in some ways, right? Isn't this one of the biggest gifts of COVID right.

[00:48:48] We keep talking about what are the gifts of COVID? Well, one of the gifts is the kids aren't going to school. And so, okay. Now the kids are learning from home and it's like, wow. Okay. Is that a chore for us to manage their [00:49:00] education from home? Or is this a tiny window of opportunity that I may never get for the rest of my life, where I can get a couple of months or a year or something where I'm.

[00:49:09] Actively really involved in their education and helping to, you know, nurture their behaviors. And, uh, we've been having a lot of fun with it. I'll tell you, these girls, I've learned a ton in the last couple of months.

[00:49:21] PH: [00:49:21] Yeah, same here for us. Atria prob I mean, we, we planted seeds and then the plants were growing like little vegetables and tomatoes and carrots.

[00:49:30] We did a bit of a, I tried to do a radio Hartman. It only lasted for two minutes. We said, okay, podcasts. But like, it was fun. You know, we did all these kinds of games and, and we introduced it to the homeschooling gong sound and, you know, homeschooling was then painting, whatever they, like I said, it's three and five, but.

[00:49:51] It it's it has given us the opportunity to spend this time and yes, much better. And they went to school funny [00:50:00] enough the first time today after, since March back to kindergarten, since March, but simply because. To deal with five kids. We were six, the nanny, we had six, we had the nanny moved in with us because I knew what was going to happen because my brother lives in Beijing.

[00:50:17] Right. So, he sat through the first wave, so I'll just be globally. And he was like, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm quarantined. I'm like, what do you mean? You know, it's locked down. Can't get out. Like, what do you mean? And working from home. Uh, he works at BMW. We, we were all sent home and so that's it. We're just sitting at art.

[00:50:33] I'm Nikki, are you joking? No. Okay. So, when the first case was a Germany, I was like, wait, okay, this is going to happen in, in, in South Africa, 100%.

[00:50:42] MK: [00:50:42] Of course, you're in

[00:50:43] PH: [00:50:43] a township everybody's on top of each other. So, I said to the nanny, okay. Like way before they were dropped on here, move in with us. Right.

[00:50:51] And she was like, sure, I'll do that. But not without my son. Who's three. So, we had four, three-year olds. And two, four-and-a-half-year olds. [00:51:00] Wow.

[00:51:00] MK: [00:51:00] Wow. You didn't need to send them back to school. You had your own at home,

[00:51:06] PH: [00:51:06] but, but we, we need, I mean, I can't believe my wife actually put it off. You know, I have the space here next door where I can work in quiet for eight hours.

[00:51:14] I mean, she is amazing how she, she doesn't lose the marbles. Wow. But yeah, it was a very special time. Like it was a very special time because they were just there, like they were there for breakfast and we have breakfast until nine. Then I go to work and then they're home for lunch. And then from five o'clock I dropped my pen and I'm just next door and it's, it's 30 seconds.

[00:51:35] I drive to work, so to speak of walk the city seconds. And so, yeah, that's, it was very, very special.

[00:51:43] MK: [00:51:43] You know what we call it? Like,

[00:51:45] PH: [00:51:45] what do you, what do you mean

[00:51:46] MK: [00:51:46] a gold nugget moment, right? Yeah. A golden nugget moment. That's all it is.

[00:51:51] PH: [00:51:51] Yeah. Not taking away from, from the crazy and very destructive aspects of it.

[00:51:59] You know, [00:52:00] many people losing businesses and, and, and, and work. And it's very scary for many people I'm sure. Yes. Um, but it has different dimensions. Yeah,

[00:52:10] MK: [00:52:10] it is. It is.

[00:52:11] PH: [00:52:11] Yep. I spoke about it with David bacon. Do you know David Bacon?

[00:52:16] MK: [00:52:16] Bacon? Very well.

[00:52:17] PH: [00:52:17] Yeah, he is similar to you with, um, being a superhero family. I have the feeling, they don't have that term, but like, you know, as his child wanted to climb Mount Kilimanjaro at 11 or something and they did it, I think two or three years later, and they raised, I can't remember some crazy six figure number, uh, for a good cause for a school day.

[00:52:41] While doing so. And he was like, yeah, why not? You know, why wouldn't I enable this, these kinds of crazy dreams.

[00:52:47] MK: [00:52:47] I love it. He's such a, he's such a good guy and that's such a great

[00:52:50] PH: [00:52:50] story. He's amazing. Yep. Yep. Hey Michel, what else has said it that you could share?

[00:52:58] MK: [00:52:58] Um, let me [00:53:00] see. So, I started working with, uh, Marshall Goldsmith.

[00:53:04] Recently, Marshall is one of the, uh, not one of he is the leading executive coach in the entire world. And, um, I'm starting to think about what it would look like to, to coach people and to help people. But in the, in the process of working with that group, I've gotten to know Alan Malali and Allen, um, used to be at Boeing.

[00:53:25] And he was the CEO that turned around Ford. He's considered maybe the best CEO of the decade and saying that Alan has, um, always sticks with me and it's something his mother said, and it basically says to serve is to live. And when you really break it down and think about it to serve is to live. Um, you know, I, I tackle my family as, from the perspective of how I can be of service.

[00:53:56] To my family. And when I asked the question from [00:54:00] that perspective, it almost answers itself of, you know, what the next step should be or what it is that I can do. Um, I'm not asking myself, what can I get out of this family? What, you know, what's in it for me, it's a question of how can I serve them? Um, and then once I have those decisions, always just trying to live from live from example, another, another thing that always stuck with me, um, this was from the one corporate job I had when I was working at Autodesk the first day of orientation.

[00:54:30] They said, imagine that anything you do while you're working at this company could be published on the front page of the New York times. And. If you wouldn't want it published on the front page of the New York times, then don't do it. And they were talking about it in the context of, you know, don't embarrass the company, don't say something you shouldn't do for the company.

[00:54:50] Don't lose money for the company. Um, and I took that saying, and I've really notched it up. And I basically say the same thing about my own life and about my family, [00:55:00] you know, is, is anything that I. Am doing for my family. Would I be comfortable having that be on the front page of the New York times?

[00:55:09] Because if I'm not comfortable, then I shouldn't be doing it. It's the easiest value rule that we have that we use with our girls with re right and wrong, and, you know, doing what you should or shouldn't do we just ask ourselves, Hey, you know, if everyone in the world knew that you were doing that or making that choice right now, would you be comfortable?

[00:55:27] And if the answer is no, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

[00:55:29] PH: [00:55:29] You applied with the kids as well.

[00:55:32] MK: [00:55:32] A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. You know, if you, if you were caught stealing something or you took some chocolate or whatever and you know, Hey, how would you feel if. Everyone in the world saw a picture of you going into the refrigerator, grabbing those chocolates and putting them in your mouth.

[00:55:49] Would that make you feel comfortable? No, no, no, no, no. I don't want them to know that daddy. Okay. Well, if you don't want them to know it, then let's not do it. You know, it's, it's makes, it makes the rules [00:56:00] really simple, right?

[00:56:04] PH: [00:56:04] Yeah, I'm looking forward to those kinds of conversations at this moment. I'm as you're saying this, I'm thinking back to an hour ago when I had two, a three-year-old, black, both the boys. So, in the triplets out there, there's a twin in the triplets that the boys and the girl. And so, both the boys screaming uncontrollably, because they don't want to.

[00:56:25] Boss.

[00:56:26] MK: [00:56:26] Yeah.

[00:56:26] PH: [00:56:26] Yeah. They don't care. They don't care. But these reasoning like this be published this yeah. Whatever I'm looking forward, I'm looking forward to that. I mean, I can see it in the five-year olds. I can speak to them and they actually respond, you know, and, and, and that's great. It's amazing that they have that.

[00:56:42] I can see it. Like I can see that understand things like not only now, but in the last year or two day, like literally they've made such a. Like an amazing development. And I'm actually, I'm really looking forward to those.

[00:56:57] MK: [00:56:57] I've had so much fun as the girls have grown up and they [00:57:00] start to get to that point of logic and you can talk about consequences and they can understand it.

[00:57:05] And it's not just because daddy says so or whatever. Um, I'm telling you it changes everything. It's I think every stage has been my favorite stage, but right now this is my favorite stage.

[00:57:16] PH: [00:57:16] Yep. Michel, we're pretty much at an hour. Is there anything that I haven't asked you or where you still want to go?

[00:57:24] No problem. We got 50 minutes. Um, we have time. Otherwise, I'll wrap it up from here.

[00:57:32] MK: [00:57:32] I would, um, I think I'd like to end it with one thought. Which is, um, it is so easy in life to live small and to just sort of, of mesh in with everyone and do what everyone else is doing. And I have found that the times in life that have brought me the most extraordinary returns and the most happiness are when [00:58:00] I have gone out on a limb and gone big.

[00:58:02] And I have found that that is not only in business, but also in family and I would just encourage everyone out there to really be asking themselves, am I living a big enough life right now? And if the answer is no, then the next question is what can I do to live a bigger. Life across any of those categories, whether it's business or personal or family, especially family for the purpose of this podcast, because there are so much, so many opportunities to have a big, amazing, incredible family life.

[00:58:37] And I'll tell you from my experience, it has been so rewarding for me to make those choices. And I'm so glad that I've done it. And I look forward to doing it more.

[00:58:46] PH: [00:58:46] That is fairly powerful, especially when combined with your extraordinary decision rule, I think. Yep. Yep. That's good. Thank you so, so [00:59:00] much.

[00:59:00] This was really fun and very powerful for me. Lots of learnings and I'm sure for others as well before we clock off, I know you took a coaching. I know you actually recognized by, uh, you mentioned the name. I forgot his name, but he, you, you were chosen what's his name?

[00:59:16] MK: [00:59:16] Share Marshall Goldsmith. Yeah, part of group.

[00:59:20] That's

[00:59:20] PH: [00:59:20] right. So, you are an amazing executive coach. Uh, please tell us where we can find you LinkedIn. And if you want to share an email so people can reach out to you. If they like

[00:59:34] MK: [00:59:34] that website, if you have wants to reach out to me, you're more than welcome to reach out to me. Um, easy on, on LinkedIn. It's just Michel Kripalani.

[00:59:42] I am the only person in the world with that name, to my knowledge. I'm quite easy to find. You just have to know how to spell it. And it's right there at the top of your podcast. So, if you put that in a Google search box, you will find me on LinkedIn. You will find me on my website, which is Michelle kirpalani.com.

[00:59:58] And I am more than happy to speak with anyone out there that would like to continue these conversations.

[01:00:05] PH: [01:00:05] Awesome. And I will put the link in the show notes.

[01:00:07] MK: [01:00:07] Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much.

[01:00:09] PH: [01:00:09] Thank you, Michel. This is good. Thank you

[01:00:11] MK: [01:00:11] so much. This has been a real pleasure. I'm very, I'm very happy for what you're doing. You're doing fantastic work and it was an honor to be on the show. Thank you